[GiftEconomy] Great little article. Puts it into context.

Sun Mar 27 13:09:39 PDT 2011

Hi Tereza, 

Id love to respond, but before I do, I have to understand fully what you
 are saying, so below I have put my questions to what you said, which I 
write in italics:

It doesn't, imo, get to the root of the
matter of the exploitation that backs our money, and that a money
backed by labor, food and goods, community, or charity would have
different results. 

I don't understand what you are saying
here, could you explain it to me in a different way.   What in your
opinion is the exploitation that backs our money?  Are you saying
that we can have something called fair exchange?

 In order to move from a society
divided into consumers and producers we need, I think, a mechanism
that gives an incentive for this. 

I don't understand this, surely there
are always consumers and producers.  If I make the tea, others
consume it. Or if someone else has made a pot of tea, I will be a
consumer, when I pour my cup out!   What do you mean?

In the US, money prevents us from being
producers because no one can afford the land, property taxes,
insurances, licenses, and labor costs for help. A gift economy for
services, labor, and sharing tools makes sense within a community -
if you can get around the laws that use liability to prevent it. 

Oh, this is my problem with money.  It
socially excludes us, it causes scarcity!    and in the case of food - death!   I am very interested to know
what you mean about liability that prevents it? (sounds like you mean insurance costs here)

A global gift economy for medicines and
"intellectual property," including anything that can be put
on the web, makes terrific sense. 

I agree.  Lovely to share.  To give to
others and so enhance all “our” lives. :-)

But I don't think that the gift economy
is the solution to all the problems that our exploitation-backed
money has created. 

How not?    Are you seeing the gift
economy as a small local thing, not able to create big changes?

We also need a currency that reverses
the exploitation, before we can even get to a trade-backed currency. 

Trade backed currency?  What is that,
is it , does it relate to your first sentence at the top?

Hope you will answer,

 Frank

--- On Sun, 27/3/11, Tereza Coraggio <tereza at retrometro.com> wrote:

From: Tereza Coraggio <tereza at retrometro.com>
Subject: Re: [GiftEconomy] Great little article. Puts it into context.
To: "frank bowman" <greenwomble at googlemail.com>
Cc: gifteconomy at lists.gifteconomy.org
Date: Sunday, 27 March, 2011, 16:28

It has a good analogy about representative government making us like a rat in a maze running from one party to the other but without an exit because both serve the party of money. It doesn't, imo, get to the root of the matter of the exploitation that backs our money, and that a money backed by labor, food and goods, community, or charity would have different results.

In order to move from a society divided into consumers and producers we need, I think, a mechanism that gives an incentive for this. In the US, money prevents us from being producers because no one can afford the land, property taxes, insurances, licenses, and labor costs for help. A gift economy for services, labor, and sharing tools makes sense within a community - if you can get around the laws that use liability to prevent it. A global gift economy for medicines and "intellectual property," including anything that can be put on the web, makes terrific sense. But I don't think that the gift economy is the solution to all the problems that our exploitation-backed money has created. We also need a currency that reverses the exploitation, before we can even get to a trade-backed currency.

Thoughts?

Tereza

On Mar 27, 2011, at 4:43 AM, frank bowman wrote:

> Gets to the heart of it. The issue. And the why and how to act. Link
> from demonetize:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/26/protest-rule-of-money
> 
> :)frank
> 
> 
> 
> On 15/03/2011, Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Forwarded conversation
>> Subject: [fp] free vs shareful diff. (once again)
>> ------------------------
>> 
>> From: *mrc* <eskerda at hacklaviva.net>
>> Date: Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:35 AM
>> To: freeprojects at lists.freeactive.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> hi
>> 
>> i have reedited this issue once again, now:
>> 
>> http://sharewiki.org/en/Shareful_Invitation#Shareful_Project
>> 
>> and well diferenced, without the need of offering the production as
>> "Shareful":
>> http://sharewiki.org/en/Free_project
>> 
>> Should the Free project's production be "free" or the free project is
>> just about an "open-free managament for a planned production"?
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Freeprojects mailing list
>> Freeprojects at lists.freeactive.net
>> http://lists.freeactive.net/listinfo.cgi/freeprojects-freeactive.net
>> 
>> ----------
>> From: *robin* <robino at robokow.net>
>> Date: Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 5:45 PM
>> To: freeprojects at lists.freeactive.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Marc,
>> 
>> could you elaborate on this and explain a bit more ? I am not ready to go
>> through
>> all the levels of abstraction yet :-)
>> 
>> Robin.
>> --
>> The way is the goal!
>> http://robokow.net
>> 
> 
> 
> -- It's a revolution. But it's the sort of revolution that no one will
> notice. It might get a little shadier, or brighter. Buildings might
> function better. You might have less money to earn because your food
> is all around you and you don't have any energy costs.  and more
> people will be fed, as more land and resources, kept scarce for the
> dollar, for the  abundance called glut,  will be shared.
> _______________________________________________
> GiftEconomy mailing list
> GiftEconomy at lists.gifteconomy.org
> http://lists.gifteconomy.org/listinfo.cgi/gifteconomy-gifteconomy.org
> 

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